meemoon,Ii didn't say u said we were mired in debt, that was my general opinion,and some others. We have had discussions on the debt, and deficit from previous administration` what i meant is would take many years to correct past debt/ plus this one`

gypsy wrote:meemoon,Ii didn't say u said we were mired in debt, that was my general opinion,and some others. We have had discussions on the debt, and deficit from previous administration` what i meant is would take many years to correct past debt/ plus this one`

OK, but the debt was manageable even with the TARP wastage. But the stimulus billions and the omnibus spending bill will be an UNMANAGABLE burden. I'm gonna keep sayiong it whether you see it or not: The stimulus bill has stimulated NOTHING but debt. I challenge you and anyone else to provide figures demonstrating any "stimilating" done. Obama NEVER said "this money will do nothing for a year or two". Oh no. It had to be spent NOW! Why, if it didn't help? Also,as I said,when the national debt was a few trillion,it was manageable. But in this spending will increase the nat debt by 11 billion MORE than normal. How can any fool believe we can pay that AND provide a healthy,growing economy for a growing population? We cannot and will not. The government MUST raise taxes and will and that will stagnate the economy for years. Jimmy Carter is back and as foolish as ever. I fully expect that you will still be saying it is a problem left by Bush.

first meemoon,I can't "speculate" one way, or the other on whether it will work,I see no point in doing so, as usual we will have to wait it out, and hope it does
.even the smartest people who are good at this economy/taxes say it is at least a begining,and a glimmer of hope is there.

no i don't blame bush completely but he sure didn't help either.. it will turn around but maybe not as fast as some would like.
my personal opinion, I don't think anyone running for president could turn it around,it will take time, and it will not happen first hundred days for sure, we see that now. I think Obama will give it all he has,then whoever is elected next will continue~hopefully

so who do you blame,or what caused this?

I guess one reason i have not been to harsh on the stimulus, is i am one it helped, Amtrak got lots of money, it may trickle out i dont know, and transit got money, and i heard at work every class A railroad got money, well not sure if amtrak got any yet or just the fact its coming but because of that, we bidded on some jobs and got what we call turn outs maybe alot of them but not sure,because a turn out is big, and we have bids in to transit, my boss said we usually get 69 percent of bids from transit. IN the stimulus, Amtrak was limited to how much it could spend of it in the northeast corridor,u may have read, but i believe, there is plans for a highspeed rail going from atlanta, through birmingham to New Orleans, its not a maglev train, its a highspeed regular rail train, i think its amtrak, but not positive..i think the one planed for los angeles to las vegas is a MAGLEV< but not sure, so far we do not have a maglev train in america i am almost certain,but most countries overseas does, the one in japan hold the speed record i think its 265 miles an hour,but we do have highspeed trains just not MAGLEV< which if u have not seen them is magnetic levitation, the trains raise up like two magnets pushing away from each other, and in the walls the train runs in somehow it makes the train move, that is how they go so fast,
we had a lay off, i was not effected, i hope we dont have another,, take care, i may have posted similar to this before, if so sorry,,

gypsy wrote:first meemoon,I can't "speculate" one way, or the other on whether it will work,I see no point in doing so, as usual we will have to wait it out, and hope it does
.even the smartest people who are good at this economy/taxes say it is at least a begining,and a glimmer of hope is there.

no i don't blame bush completely but he sure didn't help either.. it will turn around but maybe not as fast as some would like.
my personal opinion, I don't think anyone running for president could turn it around,it will take time, and it will not happen first hundred days for sure, we see that now. I think Obama will give it all he has,then whoever is elected next will continue~hopefully

so who do you blame,or what caused this?

ok i will admit im not moon..lol. i think there is plenty of blame to go around. maybe bush was consumed with 9-11 and our safety, which is understandable, many republicans including macain and my senators sent a letter, about the housing i think it was,.,many democrat senators and congressmen wanted easy loans for ppl , and i assume that is one reason for many foreclosures, i blame bush for not screaming to the top of his lungs on the housing to bring attention to this, i see no help now in the blame game, both were at fault, from barney frank to the taliban, lol, obama wiil probably have a super majority, and can do whatever he wants most likely, whatever , i will find it fascinating, my main worry, is if he raises rates on coal, most my power is from coal, anyway we will see, exciting times we are in, but here in bama, NICK SABAN still commands much of the news, lol,,

You can bet Obama is going to send the price of coal off the charts , down here post Katrina the building market was booming but within 18 months it had pretty well bottomed out , alot of developers ran out bought every bit of land available, stuck a house on it for the displaced coming out the city, well now they are standing empty, spme sweet deals on houses if you can get a loan, but now that is almost impossible..

Gypsy asked: "so who do you blame,or what caused this?" We've been here MANY times. No matter how many times you acknowledge that many,many people caused our present economic problems, sooner or later,you will say what all Democrats keep saying "Obama inherited an economy ruined by the the previous administration". Nothing could be further from the truth,but Democrats never worry about the truth too much.

Meemoon, the truth? I think both parties fall short of the truth. to me that is a ridiculous statement you made.
that is one thing that will not solve anything, is one party blaming the other, I think both parties made mistakes, faltered and stumbled~ just because a person is democrat doesn't mean they are untruthful,corrupt,both parties have been guilty of this.. again I state, I do not blame Bush for it all,I do think a more diligent watch would have helped.

gypsy wrote:Meemoon, the truth? I think both parties fall short of the truth. to me that is a ridiculous statement you made.
that is one thing that will not solve anything, is one party blaming the other, I think both parties made mistakes, faltered and stumbled~ just because a person is democrat doesn't mean they are untruthful,corrupt,both parties have been guilty of this.. again I state, I do not blame Bush for it all,I do think a more diligent watch would have helped.

You may disagree with my statement,but it was NOT ridiculous. The Republicans have ALWAYS stated their platform and agenda clearly and consistently: Cut taxes,reduce spending,maintain a strong military. The Democrats? Obama promises a balanced budget in 5 years after the Dems burden us with a debt that cannot possibly be repaid in less than 15-20. An outrght lie. Obama promised a cut in taxes for the middle class. That has NOT happened and it won't. It can't happen because we now have a new debt that MUST be repaid with.....higher taxes. A huge campaign lie. Strong military? Obama could have spent a large sum of stimulus money that would have created many jobs AND produced valuable hardware by increasing spending on the military infrastructure instead of "nature walks" and "museums". Instead,military expenditures have been cut. People in that business don't vote Democratic. As some here acknowledged,when Obama got briefed on the situation in Afghanistan,Iraq,and Pakistan, he would quickly back off his promise to "get us out of Iraq". Another huge campaign lie he told to get elected. McCain told the truth: We are in Iraq and will be there for years. You "do not blame Bush for it all"??? I don't blame Bush for any of it. How can I? Bush followed the advice of Alan Greenspan like EVERYONE ELSE, Democratic and Republican. When Frank and Dodd installed new regs that were certain to destroy Fannie and Freddie, Republican efforts to remedy that were laughed at. Racism charges were levelled in hearings at those BAD Repugs for trying to deny adequate housing to the poor. We see the results. A more diligent watch would have been better? You damn right it would have been,starting when the changes in the regs that allowed the entrance of "bundled debts" and "securitized debt" instruments. They were put in place in the CLINTON administration. You,regardless of what you just posted,never fail to blame the "Bush era" admin for every ill this country has. Blaming political parties is pointless? You betcha,but history is made up of actions and failures by individuals. And I suggest the factual record will show that most of the responsible individuals were Democrats trying to share the wealth by artificiakky creating false wealth and granting huge sums to people who were NOT qualified to get it. My opinion for sure;but an opinion based on material I have seen,read, and heard,not blog-crap on the dailykos,Huffworld,or moveon.org. Like most of the nitwits who read and post on these sites, Democrats are "believers" who will experiment with our economy and social structure. Demo inteference with the financial system has broken it. Democratic "tolerance" has led to massive illegal immigration, urban crime explosions and "same sex marriage". Enough is enough. Are we better off now? NO! Will we be better off after a year of Obamanomics? All the experts,ALL of them say NO. Will we be better off after 2 years? Nobody knows that but we know this: The Democrats have saddled us with an unprecedented debt that will take decades to pay back. That will be the Obama legacy;count on it.

I again disagree, both parties have saddled us with debt, and there is no way anyone can predict what this plan will do, as far as i am concerned raise taxes on the wealthy, do away with big cooperate tax breaks, I believe we will have to wait it out~ ,nothing can predict what will happen` they can guess,speculate all they want,,At least something is being done.I would have preferred to let the bad banks fail and to let it run its course, i don't think we are as smart as the experts, and even they don't know if all will work`
my thought is no republican could do any better,,than a democrat we saw that from the last administration`
th financial system was broke before the democrats controlled the congree senate~ they Repubs have been in control fo 32 years i believe i read, just the last two years have the dems gained back some control~

Again a dig at Bush, but what Moon is saying is perfectly clear..the Dems are in control and as you say for the past 2 years so this momentus debt we have now is Dem designed, and controlled. Maybe in 20 years if we are not attacked again since our security had been compromised by release of documents , we will begin to see some change. As for a middle class tax break..hahaha...forget it...it will never happen..To much money to repay to give anyone a break on anything.