We, my wife & I, had the experience of seeing WW2 aircraft flying to & from London celebrating our Queen's birthday yesterday.
I was quite excited to see them again & phoned my brother George explaining that the backgrond noise was caused by a Lancaster bomber. I remarked how many unfortunates had been killed & injured by these aircraft & he replied that it was only just after what the German air force had done to our cities in the Blitz. My answer was that in war there are always ppl ready to inflict death & injury on others in the name of patriotism.
What do you think?
Ben (tyro123)

Not sure, if it always has to do with patriotism.
In the end we all tend to follow the "Befehl ist Befehl" principle.
Our leaders will demonize the adversary till everyone believes them.
Those Lancansters bombed the shipyards in my birthplace several times; unfortunately for the ones living in the neighbourhood of the shipyards the bombs were not always dropped very accurately.

tyro123 wrote:We, my wife & I, had the experience of seeing WW2 aircraft flying to & from London celebrating our Queen's birthday yesterday.
I was quite excited to see them again & phoned my brother George explaining that the backgrond noise was caused by a Lancaster bomber. I remarked how many unfortunates had been killed & injured by these aircraft & he replied that it was only just after what the German air force had done to our cities in the Blitz. My answer was that in war there are always ppl ready to inflict death & injury on others in the name of patriotism.
What do you think?
Ben (tyro123)

hi tyro. good to see u and glad u here, u kinda lost me some after ur brothers quote which i agree with his. im sure ur following quote has its place, but as for world war II . survival was ur main goal. are u saying hitler was inflicting death in the name of patriotism? which i can agree with, but for england the landcaster, and american bombers, were just trying to keep hitler from knocking on ur front door. the battle of britain also has always been so heroic to me, and im sure u are proud or ur pilots keeping hitlers airforce at bay, as churhill so elequently praised, there skill and bravery in his famous quote that probably will never die,, but the bombing of germany, was a must if engand and europe was to survive,and america deciding to bomb with the B17's in the day time there by taking huge lose of lifes in pilots was heroic also. by the time germany invented jets, the United States had such a huge amount of P-51 mustangs "cadilacs of the sky" over germany as escorts of the b'17s and many other missions as they had great fuel range,. the jets never had a chance. the jets were to far outnumbered, but anyways, its good to see u, and i had forgot about u some in all the shuffle, so glad ur here, take care

I don't think war and Patriotism ,go hand in hand..

some wars are unecessary,like the war we are now in..
some are, like stomping Hitler~Yes!!

Is there a real difference...I believe terrorists are in the same league as Hitler...

SSC wrote:Is there a real difference...I believe terrorists are in the same league as Hitler...

exactly.. and that will be seen more and more if they are left unchecked,

Yes i agree somewhat, but the difference is greed/control ,a country accused of 911, which is not true..and pushing our beliefs on a country, that will never change..
it is so strange there is so many opinons, but one obvious reason.. What is that?? not terrorists in Iraq.///. some one different than u and i , must know??

differnent believes in why there is a conflict, so one may or does not have to feel patriotic. but as for the boots on the ground i feel everyone should feel patriotic for the effort they are giving.and the end game it yet to be realized, and may not for years. as many bad men want our destruction, even before 9-11,, the vietnamese were not going to come here and cause destruction , but terrorist in iraq, iran, and affganistan and around the world which are mainly muslim radicals, will be here causing more destruction, i had rather keep them busy over there, than give them a peacefull place to build there cells and training camps up,,

so u think we should support a belief that is proven wrong?? what eight years!! and a prez??Sorry! cant do,and neither can American people who Have finally spoke up, look at the votes against Bush and his war~~ u support him?
come on Rosco..look around this war has destroyed what America is!!
boots on the ground~ our Troops, yes, because they by duty are following ur prez's orders!

has nothing to do with patrioitism

gypsy wrote:Yes i agree somewhat, but the difference is greed/control ,a country accused of 911, which is not true..and pushing our beliefs on a country, that will never change..
it is so strange there is so many opinons, but one obvious reason.. What is that?? not terrorists in Iraq.///. some one different than u and i , must know??

there will be terrorist in iraq , they are crossing iran from affganistan, and certainly will in a county in civil war if we pull outl, u said pushing our beliefs which is a lie, we gave them the chance to elect a leadership, and democracy, which they did, we only now are giving them time and training to control there own country,,to leave now is to only have to go back in bigger and stronger later,

gypsy wrote:so u think we should support a belief that is proven wrong?? what eight years!! and a prez??Sorry! cant do,and neither can s American people~ who Have finally spoke up, look at the votes against Bush and his war~~ u support him?rcome on Rosco..look around~ this war has destroyed what America is!! boots on the ground~ our Troops, yes, because they by duty are following ur prez's orders~~!

has nothing to do woth patrioitism

i just think ur wrong, but obama will win, adn then we will see, i said once i hope he does win because its alot more fun bashing that being bashed , what obama does may surprise some ppl when he gets briefed, but no need , it will be better to let it play out, and time will tell,most the soldiers belief in what they are doing, just ask figi,

haha!! whateva Rosco, u are wearing blinders,we will never change that country,, we are fighting a useless war on that~,,now Oil, I think our prices have already shown how we will pay!

its not been proven wrong, everything i have read says the surge is working, but obama will not defend this country no matter what any other country does, he was given senerios and his answer to all , was no, and does not even support a missle defense system that nato countrys , and yes even france wants,, he is wuzz, and a rag head, lol. thats my name for him or 4 years MR RAG HEAD< lol,,

bashing has nothing to so with it~~ Bless the new Prez,, he has a lot of healing to do, from our past prez,,,,it will take 20 years or more to fix what has been done to our country, from a Stupid regime~ I think some do,but most soldiers don't,I believe they have to say this~I do respect our soldiers, and figi's thoughts, but i also have heard the other side~


Good night~

gone to watch a good war movie, lmao,, nite

gypsy wrote:bashing has nothing to so with it~~ Bless the new Prez,, he has a lot of healing to do, from our past prez,,,,it will take 20 years or more to fix what has been done to our country, from a Stupid regime~ I think some do,but most soldiers don't,I believe they have to say this~I do respect our soldiers, and figi's thoughts, but i also have heard the other side~


Good night~

oh but bashing has all to do with it, half the county will nto vote of MR RAG HEAD< so he will be bashed as u have done to bush , and i did not even vote for him,u enjoy bashing and so will i,

war?? it is really a joke with you?? I guess i really never knew u. enjoy ur war flick~~ also lmao since it so funny..

nite

//// but bashing has all to do with it, half the county will nto vote of MR RAG HEAD< so he will be bashed as u have done to bush , and i did not even vote for him,u enjoy bashing and so will i,/// roscos quote

ur wrong, i would love nothing better than support a man/woman leading this country` but Bush has caused us not to be able to do that~ Bash away, but first see who wins~ Mc Cain is just a clone

this debate is with out any anger from me,, i see the real truth, just like most of us AMERICANS/AND FOREIGN COUNTRIES DO.. NOw ON THIS LAST POST

good night

Too bad this topic ends in an "American elections" topic too.
As I said earlier: demonizing the adversary - the usual stuff.

Mays Gilliam wrote:Too bad this topic ends in an "American elections" topic too.
As I said earlier: demonizing the adversary - the usual stuff.

yep on the tv talk shows they call it going negative, but as they always say, it usually works , especially if one side has big buck to do tv adds, but its a long ways off, but i see obama winning, but it will be close so no mandate ,i think the real part to watch mays will be the senate and house race, if the senate pics up enough dems to bring a vote to closure, which is 60 vote i believe,, only vote that cant be filibustered is the budget vote , i think im correct,

Too much patriotism ends up like this, while the leader makes the crowd shout "dulce et decoram est pro patria mori" and they yell "ave ceasar, moritori salutant" which they eventually did

SSC wrote:Is there a real difference...I believe terrorists are in the same league as Hitler...

Not quite.
As far as my information goes Hitler never had sex with a sheep

Interesting but not sure the point intended...

Mays Gilliam wrote:

SSC wrote:Is there a real difference...I believe terrorists are in the same league as Hitler...

Not quite.
As far as my information goes Hitler never had sex with a sheep

terrorist and hitler both committed suicide, or most terrorist do.. now why would a terrorist have sex with a sheep when they are promised what 20 virgins after the do there deed and then die in the process,

gypsy wrote:haha!! whateva Rosco, u are wearing blinders,we will never change that country,, we are fighting a useless war on that~,,now Oil, I think our prices have already shown how we will pay!

we have changed it, they have an elected government, but it really will change if osama obama is elected, if he pulls out, the change will be to a blood bath,,and that will be on his head... u keep saying oil, we are not getting oil from iraq, we are trying to keep it safe, and even miss some attacks on the pipe lines, but our being in iraq to train there military, and police force, has nothing to do with the price of oil , u take events and paste them to our being in iraq, which is false, if we were out today, oil prices would not change, maybe even go up, as iraq probaably would have its oil field damaged to be unuable, by terrorist, as like i said have already done damage to it , and has to be repaired, u dont have blinders , u just dont know what u are talking about,, and u said 20 years to repair the damage, , what damage, they had a great nato conferance, with total agreement on a missile defense system, and the new french leader likes bush alot, and want to have warmer relations, and he is not a wuzz as the other leaders were, he even stated that iran cannot be allowed to develop nuclear
material, and do whatever it take to stop that, finally france has someone that does not piss in his pants on the thought of taking some action, nite i have something, sore throat, or sinus, nothing to do with the price of oil.,,lol