I,and at least one other here,saw through this admin's crap from the git-go.This is not the first admin to get so tangled up in their own Oxfords but we can enjoy the spectacle of a worshipping press doomed to report their own stupidity.There were those who would never have believed Obama and his crew no matter what they said,but some of the things we were (and still are) hearing simply could NOT be true.

You CANNOT "stimulate" our huge economy by printing hundreds of billions of baseless dollars and ear-marking them to unions and green-pal businesses.6 years of chronic high unemployment is NOT an acceptable recovery.You CANNOT ease the tax burden on the middle class by adding 100's of thousands of new public service employees.They're not gonna work for nothing.You CANNOT improve healthcare services or make them more "affordable" by adding 15+ million new people to the already full patient rolls.You CANNOT pretend that terrorism is on the wain when it definitely isn't and there are so many of it's adherents ready,willing,and able to prove you wrong.You CANNOT have the top administrators denouncing millions of decent Americans as gun toting racists and not expect your tenticular,bureaucratic agencies go after them with humiliating questioning and IRS soft-terror.

The bewildering,incredibly blundering governmental behavior are NOT "unintended results". They were a forgone conclusion.NOTHING else could have been intelligently expected and I hope the American people are enjoying their crow.More courses are on the way.

Amen Brother Moon !!!! Finally tv has taken on a new meaning, it is unfolding the most massive screwups in history. Just watching Odumba stutter and turn totally grey headed is priceless. I found it disgusting to have a Marine standing holding an umbrella when it should have been the other way around. Give the unbrella to one deserving the honor.IRS, BENGHAZI and AP...tisk tisk, a sad week in US history our POTUS on the hot seat, lying and covering with more lies.Should we have expected anything different from him NO !! This is his foundation Holder Clinton Reed they all run the risk of bursting into flames from pants on fire. I am pleased the media has finally started to emerge from the Odumba glory and have started telling the truth. When the followers turn and run the accused stands alone, doomed and destroyed disgraced infront of the whole world. By all the excited angels it is about time.

The way I'm interpreting your posts is you're suggesting that Obama and his staff are purposely wrecking this country.

He has probably made some bad decisions I'm sure, but I'm in no position to judge because of my limited knowledge of how this country is run and operates financially, I accept that, but I find it hard to believe that he didn't think at the time his plans were good for this country. That's just how I perceive anyone that is elected president in this country, I automatically think there intentions are good.

runawayhorses wrote:The way I'm interpreting your posts is you're suggesting that Obama and his staff are purposely wrecking this country.

He has probably made some bad decisions I'm sure, but I'm in no position to judge because of my limited knowledge of how this country is run and operates financially, I accept that, but I find it hard to believe that he didn't think at the time his plans were good for this country. That's just how I perceive anyone that is elected president in this country, I automatically think there intentions are good.

I'm sorry my vituperative rant has misled you.I believe that Obama,Pelosi,Holder,et al, strongly believe in America and our ability to accomplish great things.As a matter of fact,I'm convinced that when conservative thought says that certain accomplishments are unfeasible,their response is "why not? Look what we have done before!" Good attitude,but you simply cannot make Cadillacs outta beer cans.

I agree there comes a time to face facts and admit something is not fixable, but for me those facts have not been presented. What other alternative do we have to saving ourselves, giving up is not going to help, so obviously we have to think positive and try new ways of doing things, and making sure not to repeat things we did in the past that got us in this mess in the first place.

Surely in the age of bankruptcy where everything is whitewashed we can start over.

For the record, not that anyone cares, but I'm a registered Republican, always have been, I believe that is the smarter and stronger party, I'm not an idealistic dreamer, I'm a realist.

"I'm not an idealistic dreamer, I'm a realist."

Me too,Kimosabe. In my opinion,the gov't does a credible job when building highways,dams,power stations,and military infrastructure.SSC may roll her eyes on this statement,but I think the gov't does an,overall,credible job of maintaining the rivers and coatal waterways.I don't say that the gov't is intrinsically incompetent.

But Obamacare builds nothing. Basically,it is a system that tasks the IRS with forcing employers and employees with buying health insurance.We don't even have an example of this being successful at the state level,much less at a national level.People will avoid the responsibility if and when they can.Are we to put people in jail if they refuse to insure their healthcare? If we fine them who gets the money? The government? And what are they to do with it? Many employers will simply pay the fines and avoid the costs.Some will buy the coverage but employ more part-timers and limit overall employee levels.Not good.

Here's my personal beef: I opted out of part "B" Medicare.I am disabled,not sick.I just saw my doctor and will see him again on Aug 8 for a follow up. Because I am a self-payer, my bill is only $85.00 per visit.Under part "B" coverage,I would be paying a $100.00 per month premium PLUS a $100.00 deductible for that first doctor's visit. A total this year of at least $1,300.00. $170.00 versus $1,300.00 !!

I have NO problem with providing healthcare for children if their parents can't afford it and disabled people IF THEY NEED IT.But Obamacare is a weird system that insists that businesses or any person with an income buy insurance from insurance companies and HOPE IT ALL WORKS OUT!

I lived in Californis on several occasions and saw Medical at work.Countless bums,drunks,and drug addicts being taken to the hospital to dry out and get cleaned up on an endless conveyer belt.Idiotic retirement plans and Medical have bankrupted that state.

I think a humane society can reasonably compass enacting a small 2%-3% payroll tax and use the funds to do real healthcare.Subsidize the education and training of skilled healthcare workers (doctors,nurses,lab techs,etc.).Build hospitals,labs,and clinics.Provide comprehensive preventive care and counselling.The VA does this and does it well. My bro just got surgery for prostate cancer and is fully satisfied with his treatment.

I know I have cited very personal experiences here in supporting my views but what else should I use? I DO NOT want to be forced to buy Medicare part "B",something that Obamacare will require sooner or later.

Yeah, I'm not convinced Obamacare is a good plan either, I hear too many bad things much like what you mentioned to support such a plan. I don't like the part about insuring your healthcare bullshit, fuck that I'm not insuring anything. The plan should cover all bases not leave something like that (another cost) hanging over our heads, either cover the whole damn thing or forget it. Most people are not going to pay that extra cost, so screw it, leave it the way it was, it was working, all you needed was a good job that had healthcare benefits, period, it was taken out of your paycheck, you didn't have to write a check for any extra costs unless you went to the dr whereas you would then have to pay your portion of the entire cost, as it should be. No one wants to pay some kind of extra fee for insuring their freakin healthcare if they ain't sick.

I don't have any healthcare insurance because I'm not 'officially' working, so if I get sick I would just get emergency medicare that lasts the entire time you're in the hospital, the hospital staff will give you a form to fill out while you're laying in bed that takes a total of 5 minutes to fill out, you basically sign your name and thats it. They do that so the dr will get paid. Then after you leave they mail you a bill where you pay a percentage of the cost, if you can't pay it just throw the bill in the garbage and forget it.

Tyler wrote: "Then after you leave they mail you a bill where you pay a percentage of the cost, if you can't pay it just throw the bill in the garbage and forget it."

Exactly! I've done this. I even had the hospital finance woman tell me on the phone that "we will bill you but just forget that.Ignore the bill.We get paid anyway whether you pay your part or not." The orthopedist said he will get paid 80% and that was enough for him. He even threw in a free crutch.All these libs who cry about poor people dying for lack of adequate healthcare simply don't know what in the hell they're talking about.

Obamacare will put an insurance card in the pockets of every single American and will,I strongly believe,just encourage a whole lot of abuse by malingerers and riff-raff. There is already a federal statute REQUIRING hospitals to treat you if you are diagnosed with a problem whether you have funds,insurance, or nothing.

That's right, that have to treat you its the law, they have a system for that called "emergency healthcare" or emergency "medicaid" that anyone gets if they don't have insurance. That covers anything you might need in the hospital including surgery and medicines,.. everything.

What you can do is if you want to insure you get on it, is call an ambulance to come pick you up no matter what your aliment is, say you're too sick to drive or whatever, just call an ambulance and you automatically will not be refused. Act sicker than you are if need be, then when they ask for your insurance card tell them you don't have any, then they will send someone in with the form to fill out for emergency medicare, then done, you're covered. Its a no brainer, but they have to have some way to cover people (and them) that don't have insurance, and that's the way they do it, and like you said, if you can't pay your portion of the cost after you leave no one really cares. You can turn around and do it all over again if need be. Its impersonal, you're just a number to them in millions.

At the end everyones happy, the dr got his money, the hospital got theres, everyone except the insurance company, but they're used to getting fucked they wrote the book on it, so everyone's happy.