SSC wrote:Until his plan is comprehensible no legislature in their right mind should vote to pass it. I agree on working together , there is no other way for a health care plan to stand a chance , I think you are over stating the republicans want Obama to fail, they just want him to be right for the future of this country. You seem to forget we all live here Dems and Repubs and what ever decisions Obama makes will effect us all as well as our future generations .

ssc Comprehensible! I agree,, just check out your top Repub leaders Boehner,and others like McConnell from my stat(others)want him (Obama) to fail Why it hurts us all dems,and repubs..Politics as you call it..I have never understood that, failure hurts this country, as we have witnessed ..failures from past has caused this country to go into great failure,Thank God for our strong Structure/belief of better accomplishments.Just as our failures happened in Bush era. hey i know it will always go back to that~ sorry for mentioing old hat~ but its truth>

There have been failures in all administrations and going back 40 years of trying to get a health care plan in action, Obama is no different one wrong move on his part at the rate he is handing out money and we can kiss our ass good-bye as we will be in a debt so astronomical we will never recover.
Cash for Clunkers is this working hell no but they got 2 billion more , why isn't is working because there were no guidelines, people buying trucks and SUV's far from gas conservative instead of hybrids and all this is on our backs our tax dollars. Poor management with all the czars Obama has seems someone should be watching..Another government failure to oversee spending.

Some points: 1.Idiotic arguments that these disruptions are "organized" are baseless and pointless. These are OPEN meetings,so where are the plan supporters? Were they banned from attending by the Congressmen/women who held them? Really? Are they suggesting everyone at these meetings is a Republican "plant"? Really? Think! Yer hearing non-sensical Demo propaganda ment to discredit the protesters. 2. Have ya'll forgotten the initial question? When the Dems gather together in HIGHLY organized protests at meetings designed to disrupt them,including pie throwing,etc., that's called "community action" and legitimate 1st. amendment expression. Obama claimed it as his specialty in Chicago. So now it is pointless Republican "agitating"? Why? 3.Kenneth Gladney was selling "Don't Tread On Me" flags at a Town Hall meeting in St. Louis and decided to just give them away. He was thrown to the ground,beaten and kicked by four union functionaries (they were wearing identifying shirts),and wound up in the hospital. Think. If a Repub group had done this to an anti-Bush protester, we would have seen world-wide headlines screaming "FASCISM!" Republican THUGS!!!: Bush the fascist war criminal!!!" "DICTATORSHIP!!!" Ya'll know this is true. You KNOW it. But the same people who were so quick to denounce Republicans as fascists,even though the Repubs NEVER had Amereicans beaten up,are the same people you are listening to now? Why? 4. Look at the people who are shouting. Old ladies,people in wheelchairs, veterans,etc. Do they LOOK like Republican shock troops? Really? Listen to their chants: "READ THE BILL" and "We don't want MORE government" Are those disreputable challenges to the Congresspeople who are holding the meetings? So the shouters are leading us to hell and damnation on behalf of the Republican party? Congresspeople SHOULDN'T read the bills they vote on? We DO want more and bigger government? Do YOU? 5. I question the need for universal health care. Check the FACTS. Of the oft quoted figure of "47 million" who are doing without health care insurance,how many need it and are asking for it? 12 million are lillegal aliens. So we are to become the world's free hospital to whomever gets across our borders? 20 million are in families with incomes above $50,000/year who simply opted out. Are we to FORCE them (and EVERYBODY else) to pay for a system they don't want? Really? Now you can question this figure,but my understanding is that there are between 5 and 10 million people who are eligible for various health care coverages who have simply failed to apply for it. Will Obamacare require us to run these people to the ground and force them to "sign up"??? I won't volunteer to do that. I wouldn't even do it for pay. There are limits as to how stupid an occupation people will hold. Normal people,anyway. That leaves about 7 million people who depend on emergency room care,and THEY GET IT FOR FREE NOW!!! Will you spend trillions of dollars and completely change the most successful health care system in the world to grant 2% of our population the dignity of carrying around a univeral healthcare card in their pocket? Most who don't even want it? I won't. The simple truth is this: The American people do NOT want our federal government admisitering their health care plans. We have Medicare. We have Medicaid. We have private insurance. We have the VA. We have countless programs offered to state employees, RR workers, and others. THAT IS ENOUGH. Yes,improve the laws governing pre-existing conditions,state line crossing for coverage, coverage from job tgo job,etc. But don't cut the baby up into little pieces just to spread it around. That would be incredibly stupid (and uncontrollably expensive).

SSC wrote:There have been failures in all administrations and going back 40 years of trying to get a health care plan in action, Obama is no different one wrong move on his part at the rate he is handing out money and we can kiss our ass good-bye as we will be in a debt so astronomical we will never recover.
Cash for Clunkers is this working hell no but they got 2 billion more , why isn't is working because there were no guidelines, people buying trucks and SUV's far from gas conservative instead of hybrids and all this is on our backs our tax dollars. Poor management with all the czars Obama has seems someone should be watching..Another government failure to oversee spending.

he is trying.
I i see a subject change? this should have been cured with Bush/oil man /family. to get the clunkers off the roads is good an to help one to buy a better/efficient vehicle is good.
I think he is watching,what is that quote:: you have to sacrifice/pay for quality, everything is check balance,now after 8 years of failure we have to catch up,if you can name me one improvement from Bush,substantiate it iI will never menton again?

meemoon wrote:Some points: 1.Idiotic arguments that these disruptions are "organized" are baseless and pointless. These are OPEN meetings,so where are the plan supporters? Were they banned from attending by the Congressmen/women who held them? Really? Are they suggesting everyone at these meetings is a Republican "plant"? Really? Think! Yer hearing non-sensical Demo propaganda ment to discredit the protesters. 2. Have ya'll forgotten the initial question? When the Dems gather together in HIGHLY organized protests at meetings designed to disrupt them,including pie throwing,etc., that's called "community action" and legitimate 1st. amendment expression. Obama claimed it as his specialty in Chicago. So now it is pointless Republican "agitating"? Why? 3.Kenneth Gladney was selling "Don't Tread On Me" flags at a Town Hall meeting in St. Louis and decided to just give them away. He was thrown to the ground,beaten and kicked by four union functionaries (they were wearing identifying shirts),and wound up in the hospital. Think. If a Repub group had done this to an anti-Bush protester, we would have seen world-wide headlines screaming "FASCISM!" Republican THUGS!!!: Bush the fascist war criminal!!!" "DICTATORSHIP!!!" Ya'll know this is true. You KNOW it. But the same people who were so quick to denounce Republicans as fascists,even though the Repubs NEVER had Amereicans beaten up,are the same people you are listening to now? Why? 4. Look at the people who are shouting. Old ladies,people in wheelchairs, veterans,etc. Do they LOOK like Republican shock troops? Really? Listen to their chants: "READ THE BILL" and "We don't want MORE government" Are those disreputable challenges to the Congresspeople who are holding the meetings? So the shouters are leading us to hell and damnation on behalf of the Republican party? Congresspeople SHOULDN'T read the bills they vote on? We DO want more and bigger government? Do YOU? 5. I question the need for universal health care. Check the FACTS. Of the oft quoted figure of "47 million" who are doing without health care insurance,how many need it and are asking for it? 12 million are lillegal aliens. So we are to become the world's free hospital to whomever gets across our borders? 20 million are in families with incomes above $50,000/year who simply opted out. Are we to FORCE them (and EVERYBODY else) to pay for a system they don't want? Really? Now you can question this figure,but my understanding is that there are between 5 and 10 million people who are eligible for various health care coverages who have simply failed to apply for it. Will Obamacare require us to run these people to the ground and force them to "sign up"??? I won't volunteer to do that. I wouldn't even do it for pay. There are limits as to how stupid an occupation people will hold. Normal people,anyway. That leaves about 7 million people who depend on emergency room care,and THEY GET IT FOR FREE NOW!!! Will you spend trillions of dollars and completely change the most successful health care system in the world to grant 2% of our population the dignity of carrying around a univeral healthcare card in their pocket? Most who don't even want it? I won't. The simple truth is this: The American people do NOT want our federal government admisitering their health care plans. We have Medicare. We have Medicaid. We have private insurance. We have the VA. We have countless programs offered to state employees, RR workers, and others. THAT IS ENOUGH. Yes,improve the laws governing pre-existing conditions,state line crossing for coverage, coverage from job tgo job,etc. But don't cut the baby up into little pieces just to spread it around. That would be incredibly stupid (and uncontrollably expensive).

why would a repub group agitate Bush>sorry that is all i can see from this post,, what your point is missed from overstatment also I am not supporting illegals,that is another subject to regard,untill we know the extent of the reform,we are second guessing so they(repubs) are zeroin in on the weak? how pathatic

meemoon wrote: Yes,improve the laws governing pre-existing conditions,state line crossing for coverage, coverage from job tgo job,etc. But don't cut the baby up into little pieces just to spread it around. That would be incredibly stupid (and uncontrollably expensive).

im glad to see u put that because i was about to say damn moon ur on a government plan lol ,, just playing around with ya, take care,

gypsy wrote:

meemoon wrote:Some points: 1.Idiotic arguments that these disruptions are "organized" are baseless and pointless. These are OPEN meetings,so where are the plan supporters? Were they banned from attending by the Congressmen/women who held them? Really? Are they suggesting everyone at these meetings is a Republican "plant"? Really? Think! Yer hearing non-sensical Demo propaganda ment to discredit the protesters. 2. Have ya'll forgotten the initial question? When the Dems gather together in HIGHLY organized protests at meetings designed to disrupt them,including pie throwing,etc., that's called "community action" and legitimate 1st. amendment expression. Obama claimed it as his specialty in Chicago. So now it is pointless Republican "agitating"? Why? 3.Kenneth Gladney was selling "Don't Tread On Me" flags at a Town Hall meeting in St. Louis and decided to just give them away. He was thrown to the ground,beaten and kicked by four union functionaries (they were wearing identifying shirts),and wound up in the hospital. Think. If a Repub group had done this to an anti-Bush protester, we would have seen world-wide headlines screaming "FASCISM!" Republican THUGS!!!: Bush the fascist war criminal!!!" "DICTATORSHIP!!!" Ya'll know this is true. You KNOW it. But the same people who were so quick to denounce Republicans as fascists,even though the Repubs NEVER had Amereicans beaten up,are the same people you are listening to now? Why? 4. Look at the people who are shouting. Old ladies,people in wheelchairs, veterans,etc. Do they LOOK like Republican shock troops? Really? Listen to their chants: "READ THE BILL" and "We don't want MORE government" Are those disreputable challenges to the Congresspeople who are holding the meetings? So the shouters are leading us to hell and damnation on behalf of the Republican party? Congresspeople SHOULDN'T read the bills they vote on? We DO want more and bigger government? Do YOU? 5. I question the need for universal health care. Check the FACTS. Of the oft quoted figure of "47 million" who are doing without health care insurance,how many need it and are asking for it? 12 million are lillegal aliens. So we are to become the world's free hospital to whomever gets across our borders? 20 million are in families with incomes above $50,000/year who simply opted out. Are we to FORCE them (and EVERYBODY else) to pay for a system they don't want? Really? Now you can question this figure,but my understanding is that there are between 5 and 10 million people who are eligible for various health care coverages who have simply failed to apply for it. Will Obamacare require us to run these people to the ground and force them to "sign up"??? I won't volunteer to do that. I wouldn't even do it for pay. There are limits as to how stupid an occupation people will hold. Normal people,anyway. That leaves about 7 million people who depend on emergency room care,and THEY GET IT FOR FREE NOW!!! Will you spend trillions of dollars and completely change the most successful health care system in the world to grant 2% of our population the dignity of carrying around a univeral healthcare card in their pocket? Most who don't even want it? I won't. The simple truth is this: The American people do NOT want our federal government admisitering their health care plans. We have Medicare. We have Medicaid. We have private insurance. We have the VA. We have countless programs offered to state employees, RR workers, and others. THAT IS ENOUGH. Yes,improve the laws governing pre-existing conditions,state line crossing for coverage, coverage from job tgo job,etc. But don't cut the baby up into little pieces just to spread it around. That would be incredibly stupid (and uncontrollably expensive).

why would a repub group agitate Bush>sorry that is all i can see from this post,, what your point is missed from overstatment also I am not supporting illegals,that is another subject to regard,untill we know the extent of the reform,we are second guessing so they(repubs) are zeroin in on the weak? how pathatic

what bill? plus so much to read, an differences
~ Oh Well,it is a challenging read~

Moon excellent post and clear as a bell as to your thoughts.
Some of us get it and then there are others who don't .

I understand what your saying on protesting, but it is in all the news where their protests are planned and violent,Beck,Limbaugh have been involved in placing these protesters to create chaos at town hall meetings.an the propaganda is from the Repubs in my opinion. they are protesting with even knowing what the reform contains,not even giving chance for The representatives to answer questions

gypsy wrote:I understand what your saying on protesting, but it is in all the news where their protests are planned and violent,Beck,Limbaugh have been involved in placing these protesters to create chaos at town hall meetings.an the propaganda is from the Repubs in my opinion. they are protesting with even knowing what the reform contains,not even giving chance for The representatives to answer questions

u need to stop just blaming republicans, its larger than that, actually party affiliations should not be mentioned in the town hall things, its conservatives and the more liberal, but also a large part is independents, i dont agree with the ones that shout,they should be removed, but that is not possible, they need to let the represenatives talk, that is not fair, ppl should be able to hear,some may shout because they are scared the answers may make sence. i did read in a news article that glen beck was organizing ppl to go to the meetings, but i dont know if he ment to disrupt them. the party affiliations need to remain on capital hill. there we see who voted for what and what each says,a town hall cant be judged by party, i would guess but have no way of knowing right now most ppl are independent,and vote both ways, actually if memory serves me nixon wanted a new health care system, but i may be wrong..

sorry Rosco, The republicans are at the heart of all this chaos name me some good Republican ,I would love to read this, ..the party needs to regroup~ then we can evaluate//I agree on staying focused but this town hall disruptions is ridiculious an the becvk/limbasugh is pushing it

Pelosi is referring to the protesters as Nazi sympathizers, how frigging typical of her..

SSC wrote:Pelosi is referring to the protesters as Nazi sympathizers, how frigging typical of her..

All this is Democratic whining. Now the protesters are "un-American". It is SO obvious that the Dems want to divert attention from the truth: The American people rejected Hilarycare 15 years ago and they are rejecting Obamacare now. As Barney Frank said, this is all about single payer (socialised) medical care. Pelosi,like most liberals, believes she knows better than the people and will NOT tolerate opposing views. Watch. When Obamacare fails, the Democrats will claim that the Repubs "stold" the vote. Obamacare is socialised medicine; the American people don't want it,and that's that.

gypsy wrote:sorry Rosco, The republicans are at the heart of all this chaos name me some good Republican ,I would love to read this, ..the party needs to regroup~ then we can evaluate//I agree on staying focused but this town hall disruptions is ridiculious an the becvk/limbasugh is pushing it

maybe i did not explain what i ment, its the town halls, for example, the AARP is up in arms and shouting, because of some end of life language in some committee bills, and as a rule in national elections i do believe the AARP is pro democrat and vote as such, , as the dems are usually more pro social security, and other issues that effect the older ppl, so its the issues of the bill some ppl disagree with,, and not just black and white, republicans vs dems, i will admit on capital hill it is that way it would seem,, but some conservatives talk shows are pushing buttons,but i think not much more can be said about this,

I agree on not much more can be said, they aren't protesting the Bill because we don't know what it consists of, they are protesting the complete reform,.
something needs done glad it at least is being tried,a lot of people suffering out there with no insurance to help them.. I can't understand the concept ,that some people have about this.. oh well what will be will be, nothing we do will change that..

i will have to take a wait and see approach now, there is no bill to read, it is obvious that not much is being learned in the town halls as there is to much disorder , so when they get a bill to read the details. i will make a judgement. all i hope to see is the ppl that cant get insurance , like ppl that are layed off or cant work and such have something they can get on without preexisting conditions restrictions, . something will pass. there will be a bill pass. it may not have bells and whistles but something will be there. i have been on cobra before , but is only temporary and very expensive, i had between jobs.take care

SSC wrote:Pelosi is referring to the protesters as Nazi sympathizers, how frigging typical of her..

im no pelosi fan at all, i was listening to fox news and they had a guest on, what he said is the organized ppl which is not that many, that are shouting constantly , the same thing over and over, and not let ppl ask legitimate questions or let the congressman address questions because they shout slogans over and over , is not the american way.which is to let ppl have freedom to speak and find out things they are interested in knowing, which what he said did make sence to me,,

A man wheeled his son to the front of one town hall meeting, asking the question if his son would be able to get treatment for a pre-existing condition, the senator conducting the meeting could not give a direct answer, his reply..we intend to write in the clauses....People want to know what this bill consists of and right now no one knows because it isn't completed...How Obama expects people to accept an unfinished medical bill and just whisk it thru for a vote is absurd. He is dealing with peoples lives . Uncertainty is what will kill this whole program and the fact the White House isn't clear on what it contains. Get is all in writing dot the I's and cross the T's then present it ..That is common sense..

Just was watching news Senator Caskill(ms) was answering questions about the health reform plan an from what she states there is a written plan and all these rumors going around are just not true..

SSC wrote:A man wheeled his son to the front of one town hall meeting, asking the question if his son would be able to get treatment for a pre-existing condition, the senator conducting the meeting could not give a direct answer, his reply..we intend to write in the clauses....People want to know what this bill consists of and right now no one knows because it isn't completed...How Obama expects people to accept an unfinished medical bill and just whisk it thru for a vote is absurd. He is dealing with peoples lives . Uncertainty is what will kill this whole program and the fact the White House isn't clear on what it contains. Get is all in writing dot the I's and cross the T's then present it ..That is common sense..

On the mark. Obamalites rushed through the stimulus bill WITHOUT the 48 hour preview, stating an urgent need and a target of 8% or less unemployment. Only 15% of the funds are actually at work ("shovel ready" my ass!) and unemp. is at 9.4% and will take (the experts say) at least THREE YEARS to normalize. The American people aren't stupid. We can read. Pelosi/Obama are doing the same thing with health care. A finished bill by August? Many Demo talking heads kept saying that, but when that failed, they THEN said "we had set no time-table". Nonsense. I agree with you guys that it would be great if ANY American could be assured that if he/she/ the kids, needed to see a doctor,they can see one. It is NOT a right,but is a reasonable goal. Will Obamacare insure that? No. When everyone is guaranteed care,everyone will avail themselves of it. In Walterboro, of over 30 doctors, only two will accept Medicare/Medicaid patients. That's ugly and it is wrong,but it is a fact of life and the reason I immediately dropped part B coverage. Why pay over $100/month for coverage I can't use without standing in line at some clinic? Over 80% of Americans don't face that because they have non-governmental coverage or can afford to pay their med bills out of pocket. These are the people raising hell and they are a vast majority. That is why so few are showing up at these town hall meetings extolling the virtues of Obamacare. Anyone who says that these protesting old folks and others presently insured are NOT fearful and outraged is wrong,wrong,wrong. I submit to you that the average Mr/Ms America is sitting on their couch aand watching all this and thinking "Why should I be taxed heavily (as we will be) to go from a system that works well for me to a system that puts me in a line?" You bet we need to see more,but so far, every feature that emerges causes "fear and loathing". Personally,I think a type of universal health care is inevitable. I think that is good and just. But what I have seen guarantees only "fair" care for all while destroying "good" care for the majority. When the politicians (ALL of them) can present a plan that insures the present level of "good" care for the many while providing fair care for the (very) few,you'll have a winner we are willing to pay for and be proud of. The American people do NOT see that result in the plans as described, and they don't need Rush or anyone else to coerce them to tell you that. They (we) never have and hopefully, never will.

gypsy wrote:Just was watching news Senator Caskill(ms) was answering questions about the health reform plan an from what she states there is a written plan and all these rumors going around are just not true..

You might listen to a few more reports , seems each Senator has a different point of view.

"At the same time, the Democratic National Committee is urging supporters to visit the local offices of their senators and House members. DNC interns called lawmakers’ offices to find out their hours of operation. Organizing for America, the Obama grass-roots network now operated by the DNC, offers custom-tailored e-mails telling supporters where and when they can show up.


The new White House site has built-in tools allowing users to e-mail every page and video to their friends and families and is linked to social networks with preloaded messages to encourage folks to share the content. The videos feature administration officials putting a face on reform by tackling issues in a casual, straightforward way.


There's also an FAQ that, when e-mailed, includes a long message full of the facts about reform — in a similar format to some chain e-mails that offer what the White House considers a long list of falsehoods. The 2,000-word FAQ covers everything from “rationing” to “a lot of seniors seem to be concerned about a provision in the House bill that would provide counseling for end of life care. They think it sounds like the government will come along every five years and require you to talk about how you want to end your life."


The site will be promoted heavily on the White House’s rapidly growing social networks and with an e-mail to the WhiteHouse.gov list.


Linda Douglass, communications director of the White House Office of Health"



(You mean this isn't "un-American mob behavior"??? Anyone who doesn't see irony here is either blind,stupid,or both)

According to a spokeswoman on Chris Mathews' "Hardball", we are also racists. She said that if the truth were elicited with "sodium pentothal" (truth serum) we would find that "45% to 65%" of the meeting protesters are "uncomfortable" with a black president. Good God almighty; how low can these Dems sink? The feeling of pride and accomplishment expressed by Americans after the elections were universally expressed in this country. I said so myself. So. Now if you express yourself at a public meeting, you are part of a "mob". If you don't support the President's health care plans (as stated so far), you are,according to Nancy Pelosi, "un-American". And if you do both,you are a racist. I predicted this would get uglier,and it has and it will. These vicious attacks on the American people are typical of liberal idealogues,but I am surprised that our "dear leader" hasn't curbed them. I thought he was smarter than that. Obviously, I was wrong.

"Obama has no completed health care plan , there are so many loop holes and uncertain issues trying to pass it now would be absurd. He is in such a rush to get something done without being able to explain the effects that he is becoming his own worst enemy." /// We got caught light on this one,SSC. There certainly is an Obama health plan. House resolution #3200. If it passes, it will be adjusted with any Senate bill. It's what is in HR 3200 that has so many people upset, not Repub "misinformation".

if i understand it correctly, there is one committee in the senate that their bill did not get out of committee before leaving for break , so there is no final bill as we all know, even when the house and senate pass a bill it will have to go to conference to be changed and shaped into one bill that can be voted on, so we have a ways to go, there are ppl using things for misinformation, mainly the going to kill grandma misinformation, which i find silly, all it is was an amendment that will pay every 5 years for a dr office consultation on like if u want a living will and such u can discuss it with ur dr, ppl do this now, this only pays for the office visit, as i have said my mother in law did this, she had bypass surgery and told the dr and wrote out that she did not want to be resuscitated if she died in the operation, my mom died during a arteriorgram . another dr was doing it which we knew him and he was good but my moms heart stoped, after 5 year since bypass her heart was all stopped up again, the hospital said they only loose one patient a year to arteriorgrams,the dr doing the procedure, called her heart dr, and asked did he want him to install a pacemaker, her heart doctor said no let her go.he had hit a clot in her main chamber her arteries were clogged so her heart stoped when the clot was dislodged
i was not even there , it was so routine my sister told me to not come my sister was there, but the dr made the decision. but we afterwards agreed my mom suffered way to long as she had bad arthritis of the back and cryed every day, for the last couple of years, my sister wrote her heart doctor thanking him for the nice care and way he treated my mom, it was her time. take care